When Can We Stop?

A few days ago a comment was made on another entry. The writer wrote that he could see that,

"Whenever we're being treated badly…it's our bad karma. When others treat us badly, it's perfectly all right for them [to do so]. So at what point does this stop? Surely, we can't keep 'accepting' or suffering bad treatment? At what point do we stop being takers?"

Personally, I wouldn't say that it was "perfectly alright" because the person who is mistreating us is committing their own harmful actions and will have to suffer their own painful results in the future. They will find themselves in a similar position to our current one. So ideally we would feel badly about the future suffering that the other person is currently creating for themselves.

What of our situation? Our bad retributions are the results of our bad actions. If I do something wrong, how can I expect to avoid the consequences? It is fair for me to receive the results of my actions. It would not be fair if I could evade the results. And if I resent these karmic results by becoming angry or upset, I’m just committing more wrong actions that will result in additional bad results!

The reality is that I laid the ground work for my karmic retributions. There's no point in blaming the person who delivers these retributions to me. We're not "taking it" in the sense that the other person is mistreating us for no good reason. We're simply receiving what we created for ourselves. So there's no point in getting upset with the "messenger."

And actually, with our current understanding that painful situations are the direct result of past wrongdoings, this is the best time for us to undergo our bad karmic consequences. As much as we have difficulty accepting these retributions even when we have learned of causality, imagine how much more difficult it will be in a future lifetime when we know nothing of cause and effect.

Comments

[Anybody]

Dear Venerable,

I do believe there is a way to help others not be so awful towards us and hence stop making bad karma for themselves. That would be as Ayya Khema (not sure about the spelling) put it: When you are calm and you see they are calm, that would be the time to bring up the issue. Lets say for example, someone steps on my baby toe. It hurts ALOT and this person keeps doing it. Well i wait for an opportune time to say "hey that hurts please don't do that again". The baby toe hurting is a representation of whatever someone is capable of saying or doing that hurts either physically, emotionally, or spiritually. Defending our rights is not what i am suggesting. What i am suggesting is some people do need to be STOPPED. For their own good or bad karma. If they cannot take a hint then keep at it. Like the story of they guy who was wearing down a bolder with a feather. He was diligent and patient and he kept at it. Just knowing the bolder would eventually wear down. It did not matter he was only using a feather. The feather in this case could be patients, caring kindnessness and compassion in our action toward the other person.We must be gentle and soft. Even though they are abrasive we can choose to be a gentle giant with an inner knowing that transcends that interaction.

What does anybody else think?

anybody

[anybody]

I thought a little more about responding to mean people, or people who are abrasive in nature. Mean or abrasive people act out of hate but love is stronger than hate. Hate is an active, predatory force proceeding from an empty center. At its core is a loneliness or deep hurt or sadness that has become so calcified that the only way it can be expressed is in a desire to destroy all things good and gentle and kind. A love even the most fragile love can conquer hate, because the empty center at the core of hate is always silently crying out ot be filled with love. If we think about the meanest, most hate-filled people we know chances are we have seen a tiny place where they can be touched. But they are so armord in their hatred that they don't want us to see this. They will go to any length to hide their softness, because it is a window into the vulnerability of their own hearts and the only protection they have is in the armor of their own hate or abrasiveness. If we take the chance and plant a seed of love (knowing that the ground on which it falls) though rocky, still has enough goodness for love to take root and grow- a miracle can occur.

Just a few more thoughts on the matter.
Taken from Make Me An Instrument of Your Peace

anybody

[anybody]

Okay this is my my third try at this one. I really was left thinking about it. The Buddha himself was attacked because he told the people they basically did not need the Brahmins. Then one day a Brahmin came and gave the Buddha a mind of his own. The Buddha did not keep quiet. He responded with a question in turn for the tongue lashing he took. The Buddhas question was simple and to the point: If you invite someone over for dinner and put out lots of food. And you guest chooses not to eat to whom does the food belong? The Brahmin said to him of course. Well the Buddha said that is correct so your anger belongs to you as well. The anger you have belongs to you. The Buddha was not silent to others who spoke harshly to him. However he spoke directly, calmly, peacefully and with care for and about the other person.

[Venerable Wuling]

Anybody,

I was in Chicago for a week and didn't have the time to join your one-person discussion. It is excellent by the way. Your third try summed up where you were going very well with "The Buddha was not silent to others who spoke harshly to him. However he spoke directly, calmly, peacefully and with care for and about the other person."

Knowing the past karmas, abilities, and level of those he was talking to, the Buddha would know just the right way to reach others he had an affinity with. So he knew how to best help others see where their actions were neither correct nor beneficial. Those he could not reach due to no affinity, he was still respectful and calm towards, but did not attempt to teach.

For your first comment, I agree that the best way to teach others is through example and calmly talking to them. As the Buddha said, hatred is not ended by hatred but by the absence of hatred. And your suggestion of saying "hey that hurts please don't do that again" is a good example of saying the right words at the right time.

When we can help others, we can try to skillfully do so. When we do not have an affinity to help, we can try to show by example with the understanding that it may take a while for our actions to take hold.